If you wish to contact me, such as for Touhou Epic inquiries, please see the new wiki. I will no longer be responding to any messages left here. Thanks.


Start with links to the other site, please. And add {{Copyvio}} to pages. Thank you! Also, as an aside, if you don't want people to see all the content on the copyrighted page, try putting it in a comment so we can see what was wrong with the page. Add why it is and what copyright stature it's breakign if you can as well.

If you start on one page, you should start doing the rest. If you only do one page, I'll change it to something more suitable in case you're not really thinking of helping out and just thinking of editing as you please. If you're really thinking of being helpful you'll need to also delete the links to the other site that holds copyrighted content on your page. --Imanie 01:51, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

I'll just say right now - I can't be arsed to handle every single page. I have enough trouble trying to work on other projects on the other wiki. Kiefmaster99 01:57, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
You can do your userpage instead of only what pleases you to do. "The removal of links that go to sites that violate copyright is very easy to implement." That's what you said, so... start small and at home, then work your way up.You said it was easy to do, so I expected you to be able to add the template to the pages easily (maaybe comment out the page if you were really up to t) and add a reason why. I guess not, though. D: --Imanie 02:03, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
You're writing reasons, not sections. The sections are listed here. --Imanie 02:06, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
I also took the liberty of deleting the links to the other wiki with copyright violations off this page since you seemed to have forgotten those. --Imanie 02:12, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
User pages tend to be more immune, but whatever. Also oops. I personally think this is unnecessarily bureaucratihatc since the vast majority of copyright violations that remain on this site violate the same clause (discuss in main page). Due to this, I will cease action for the time being, but at the same time, from this point onward, I may restore links until you provide me the section violated. Kiefmaster99 02:18, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
The same one you said all the others were violated for. If linking to a site that hosts scanlated pages is against a copyright section you didn't list, then linking to a site that also hosts all that information goes under the same one. Unless that wiki removes all its copyrighted content, this one cannot link to it, as you have already pointed out. I'm not working on the vast copyright violations yet. As you also pointed out on the front page, we are working our way down the list to the easier one that you couldn't finish by yourself. Userpages are not immune to copyright violations because they are all hosted by Wikia, otherwise we could just host them all on someone else's page and be done with it.
I know that all you really wanted was to be done with those pages (the ones you've been working on for a while), but you're right. However, removing all the links from user pages and talk pages is much more simple and easier to start with, then we can go through every page like V did, and add the copyvios, contact the wiki staff, and see if we can salvage anything from them. God work on the three you started, though. --Imanie 02:35, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
This essay could be consulted as a reference: (apparently pay-per-access). Edit: Feel free to modify template as seen fit. Edit: As much as I'd wish to continue making changes, I can no longer commit. Enjoy the template. Kiefmaster99 02:39, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Touhou Epic

No links to that site until all the mess is cleaned up and they decide to be nice :o we listed your name and a link to your profile here. You, after all, did say you weren't going to update anything here and that site is still off limits for a reason. --Imanie 05:35, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Due to the recent change to the article, there is a clear intent from you guys to keep the article up (and not just abandoned).
Which alone is fine by me, as a fan article of a mod. But I ask that you follow guidelines of attribution. Obviously since this was the former official site, I will notice changes here. However, I have moved my official site to the new wiki, and all activity with it. All updates of recent activity will be there, and permissions that Souha has granted me to making a wiki article have moved over there.
It is insufficient to link to my User Page here. You may as well be linking to my Twitter, if I had one.
I therefore offer a few options.
1) Permit an exception to linking to the new wiki for this article. I will permit the article in its current state as an act of good faith.
2) Compliance. Since you are linking to the Japanese site, to be fair, I will permit the Japanese stuff to remain. However, I will have to take down the English patch and related elements.
I would prefer 1). Of course, you can choose 2), but then out of mutual fairness, I'll have to take down the English patch. I am acting in this mod's interests. Kiefmaster99 06:41, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
Umm, related elements would only include maybe the link to the patch, but the Mod is freeware, no matter what. It has to be free, which you know. Any English things that are up are also allowed to stay because it's a wiki and anyone can play and add all that information up. Images and all that are actually allowed to stay per fair use, because we are not hosting the game on the wiki, last I checked.
Copyright says we should credit you, not that we have to link to you if we bring the game up. We are not taking any credit for it being made nor are we saying you didn't translate it or that Souha didn't create it.
I never expected you to notice changes here since you said you wouldn't. If you are going to continue and post changes, then linking to your user page is appropriate for the time being. If you actually left and never came back, maybe we'd consider it if the vandalism stops. --Imanie 10:32, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
Then I will proceed to remove the link to the patch. That alone is sufficient; I won't bother with much else. Kiefmaster99 11:02, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

There seems to be an inconsistency in this website policy. I will ask one question. "Does this wiki have a 'Don't link to external wikis' policy?". EDIT: Based on a recent edit, an answer of "no" will be assumed if no answer is given. Kiefmaster99 04:26, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

Your policy seems to forbid links to external wikis. This happens to include 東方叙事詩@wiki, of which a considerable portion of material on Touhou Epic is derived from. I will enforce Souha's copyright and remove text from the following unless reasonably challenged:
FAQ - directly translated and adapted.
Gameplay - directly translated in so far as was possible. Image protected under mod conditions itself; fails fair use.
Civs - directly translated.
Leaders - directly translated.
Tech Tree - directly translated.
Buildings - directly translated.
Units - directly translated.
Civics - directly translated.
Promotions - directly translated. Image protected under mod conditions itself; fails fair use.
The original intent of that article was to mimic the other wiki, in so far as was possible. Kiefmaster99 18:27, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
Linking to an external wiki for information not contained on the Wikia network is fine. Linking to a wiki (or any other website) responsible for large amounts of spam and vandalism is not. Concerning the .net wiki, that is globally disallowed by Wikia now from what I have seen, it isn't something done by us. We originally removed all the links during the period of heaviest vandalism with the intention of phasing them back in later, but I'm not sure that is going to be possible now.
To streamline that gibberish: This wiki does not have any policy against external wikis currently. Wikia as a whole sets some policies however, like the restriction of links to the .net wiki as described above, which I will enforce, doubly so while spam continues.

VS3025 19:37, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

"The staff members of would like to state that we do not condone any form of retaliation against Wikia. Thank you.". Any argument based on spam doesn't hold; that's as bad as blaming a raid on a website whose rules don't condone it. As far as I am concerned, Touhou Epic (at Touhou Wiki) will be treated the same as 東方叙事詩@wiki. Both are external wikis. Both are dependent on an external host (Touhou Wiki proper; @wiki). Both provide authoritative information on the mod. One is essentially a partial translation of the other. Unless this policy is changed (not that I expect your host to comply), then 東方叙事詩@wiki will be taken down as per Wikia's (or rather some guy's so called) "External links" policy, and content removal will follow.
Basically, since the spam argument doesn't hold, the external link policy is to be interpreted as forbidding links to wikis sans Wikia or Wikipedia. This affects @wiki. Kiefmaster99 20:21, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
Well, since we aren't going to agree on interpretations of the external link policy, and you have dismissed what I have to say, I went ahead and contacted Wikia staff to see if we can get some clarification on this issue. I'll let you know when I have more information.

VS3025 22:29, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

I have not heard back yet. I will begin to take pre-emptive measures. Kiefmaster99 22:40, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
You can go file a copyright complaint like every other site says you have to do. We do not have the translated game hosted here or linked here. This is your last warning. --Imanie 22:30, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
I would advise you (Imanie) to read the previous comments. The text is being targeted because it is directly copying off the other site. Nowhere have I mentioned anything about the game itself. Also read wikipedia:Gratis versus libre.
I would also advise staying out of this and delegate everything related to Touhou Epic to VS3025 to reply to my concerns, since based on previous comments, he actually is more competent, and has taken the time to listen to my concerns, rather than making a baseless threat. Unless you give me a good rebuttal, I will revert in 24h.
Just as a side note - I (and most other fanwork authors) don't care enough to go and file an official claim to Wikia. For one, I'm not even getting paid for this. I'm merely protecting the interests of the mod, myself, and Souha, basing arguments off of ethics and legality. Any other reasonable Touhou site (or heck, even scanlation) site would've taken down such content by now, but your wiki seems to remain defiant. Kiefmaster99 00:51, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

The good news is I have heard back from Wikia so I am in clear understanding of policy and how it related to this nonsense.

1) When you added the page you agreed that the wiki could use it forever. You licensed it under the Creative Commons license, and you can't revoke it.
2) There is no global rules against linking to external wikis in general. The ban against links to the .net wiki are due to incessant spamming. The fact that they put up some meaningless statement is irrelevant. If a contributor to this site acted in such a manner, I would suspend their account immediately. It's not like admins there don't know who it is, hell, they've posted in the same threads as each other about it on other websites.
3) Since we can link to 東方叙事詩@wiki, your claims of failure to attribute to them are now void.
4) The terms you agreed to when making edits on Wikia mean that attribution is given to you by merit of the history, which links to your user page. Your deciding to no longer use that page or insisting it links to a banned website does not mean Wikia has an additional necessity to find a new way to attribute to you, the obligation is met.
5) Any other reasonable creator would want fans to be able to access information about their work. All anyone here wants is for people who are both interested in Civilization IV and Touhou to be able to enjoy both. People still must go to elsewhere to get the patch for the game, that page is purely informational, it doesn't discredit you or the other creators in any way. Whose interests are you protecting by trying to remove information on Touhou Epic from this web page? The fact that you don't "don't care" to file a claim with Wikia is proof enough that it isn't actually about that.

The page will be put under protection until April 14th, 2011. VS3025 03:15, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

Then I will address your comments.
1) Well, yes and no. I was infringing on someone else's copyright. For the same reason if I had uploaded a commercial movie it would be taken down, the same would apply here.
2) Thank you for the clarification; it seems that wiki does not permit bonafide use of external links in such a manner.
3) True. Technically I could just claim that the text is directly infringing, and omit need for attribution.
4) That applies to the text. Not the mod, which has separate conditions attached to it, not to mention material I don't own.
5) It makes little sense for an old page not to link to the most recent, updated article. It is harmful to misinform (your article will never will be the most current, and failure to link to the most current is outright harmful). The state of the article before you started pruning links outside was the ideal end state of that article.
You removed the link out. It was because of this I had to begin to invoke various claims.
The fact that this site used to be official means that I have to sadly babysit it, and take measures I normally wouldn't take. I mean, I really don't care if bit and pieces of information or the mod itself is posted on other sites.
It is incredibly unfortunate that your host has a policy detrimental to the existence of this article. It is also inane that I can't just use "Touhou Wiki" to ref the new site.
I, and I'm sure you are, getting rather weary of this debacle. The nicest thing you can do, and something that your site will permit, is to, in the lead, explicitly state that "The official article has moved to Touhou Wiki (touhouwiki net).", as to avoid confusion (which was my top-most concern in the first place). At least until the official site reaches the top of Google, after which point, my concern is no longer valid. Kiefmaster99 05:03, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
We do not have to link to the new wiki's touhou epic page. You do not have to continue updating that page or post any new information on it. In fact, you said you wouldn't earlier (also seen on your profile page) and now.. you're saying you have to? Now you're also saying that it's ok to have the mod patch up but before it wasn't ok (unless you're trying to say that it's under the CC licenses, too, which is why everyone is allowed to post it up)? Ai-yah!
We are not going to be lenient on this matter. You have given us no reason to, and neither have the spammers. If we give an inch, you (or/and the spammers) will take a mile. If we allow one place to say the official article has moved, then we'll get spammers posting that on every page they can get their hands on. I think you see the problem there. This is an unofficial Touhou Project Wiki anyway, as is every other one that's made (seeing as they don't have official support). It is also not our problem, or concern, if Google does or does not list the other one on the top.
If this were official in all rights or was backed by the people posting it, we would say so. But we're not, are we? So there's really no problem, except for pride, or for getting links and page views. Many people have said that the other wiki is "backed by the whole touhou community" so "everyone" should already know.
People from the other wiki (creators or owners?) have already said that they want nothing to do with this wiki and we're ok with keeping that. There are no links to us on that wiki (I assume) so why should there be on this one? Many people from that wiki are continually trying to wipe this one out of the world wide web, even though they could just list both up in conjunction. Just because the wiki says they do not condone that sort of behavior doesn't mean they aren't turning a blind eye to it happening in their own ranks.
If you continue to have issues with the information you allowed Wikia to use (until you moved), then take it up with Wikia, because we're not changing our stance in this matter. No matter what you say to us, or try to convince us of, we will not budge for the same old reasons you're giving, when you specifically added them here in the first place and have stated that everything would be ok to stay IF we added a link to the site that people continue to spam on this wiki. Honestly, from everything you keep writing, your real reason of coming here just seems to be to cause trouble and get us to remove the pages for any number of reasons, real or not. Your posts on other sites have already proven that you want this wiki to fall; so I apologize if if it seems that I don't trust you.
P.S. Do not post a link to the other wiki at all until the ban is lifted (if the ban on the site is listed) for any reason (even if it isn't a harmful jester). That is a warning. Have a nice night. -Imanie 06:31, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
To address your points:
Allow me to repeat my stance. "The continued existence of the old site obliges me to monitor it." After the link removal, I took whatever corrective measures I felt necessary to remove confusion. The removal of the English mod was one such step. Removal of similar text was another.
Slippery slope arguments might work, if it weren't for that fact that I can think of no other examples (i.p. This is the only project I am personally involved in). In any case, thanks for enlightening me on your policies. At least reputable sites have the decency to remove upon request of the author.
Stop throwing red herrings. Stop confusing between Touhou Epic, myself, Souha and Touhou Wiki. The article is hosted on there; that is the only relevant detail. Everything else, I don't care.
I don't pursue my claims to Wikia simply because "I don't trust them". They can do whatever they want, because neither I nor Souha have the legal resources to bother.
Oh, and
"Your posts on other sites have already proven that you want this wiki to fall"
I'm curious as to where you found such info or have come to that conclusion. Kiefmaster99 08:40, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
Ok. --Imanie 09:35, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
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