Reimu Hakurei

Talk Page

I have no idea what this says:

All gravity from Earth, however big stress, or threatings with power has no effect to her.
Both her mind and body floats around sky of phantasm, that's really mysterious shrine maiden.
However intimidating the opponent is, that doesn't matter to her.
As she planarize whatever title one has, she tends to attract anyone regardless of species, like human or youkai.

Some thoughts about the new format:

  • I kind of miss the pre-formated text gray background that screams, "It's a quote!"
  • With a horizontal rule separating the Japanese text from the English translation, it isn't immediately obvious whether any other horizontal rules are part of the text or separating distinct blocks of text (like in Kaguya's profile)
  • a second-level heading (=== text ===), with only bold text and a slightly larger font, isn't very good for skimming (I suppose it's okay anyway since the table of contents auto-links to each subsection)
  • Nothing at all seems to separate different profiles from the same source (like the last two entries in Reimu's profile)
  • Japanese text is indented but its English translation is not

I don't have anything constructive to offer at this time, but someone else might.

--Deciare 16:22, 21 May 2005 (PDT)

I'm trying another experimental format at User:Deciare/Testing_Something, based on Leviathean's. I've tried to address the issues I pointed out above. Mainly:
  • character portraits are now positioned to the right of the Japanese text
    • both Japanese and English text are left-justified
    • no wasted space on the left column
  • Return of the Gray Boxen *cue cheap horror movie music*
    • very obvious indication of quoted text (for the next profile/source)
    • no need to separate Japanese text and English translations with horizontal rules
  • different profiles from the same source are now separated by blank lines and a horizontal rule (see last 2 profiles from the article linked above)
    • come to think of it, this defeats the purpose of the previous point. Maybe we can do without the ---- between profiles from the same source since gray boxes are already acting as indicators that a different profile is being quoted
--Deciare 17:48, 21 May 2005 (PDT)

  • I don't really want to use the pre-format gray-boxes if possible, since it forces the page to be "wide" (i.e. doesn't word-wrap automatically). Not good when we're trying to make this work for all browsers, screen-sizes and so on.
  • Hmm. I don't think there's any other profile that uses horizontal rules inside a profile text except for Kaguya's. I offer the alternate suggestion that the horizontal rules in Kaguya's official profile could be changed to maybe some centered text, as those seperations in the story text are not as important as seperations for other purposes.
―example text seperation―
  • For the various profiles, the second level heading (=== text ===) used for subsections is appropriate for their relative importance. I guess maybe an additional horizontal rule would be good?
  • Seperating two profiles from the same source seems to be something I forgot. I don't feel it's a big deal, but I'll experiment.
  • Japanese text was always this indented, even in the quotes. Maybe it can be thought of as another way to seperate the English from the Japanese text.
I will be making some of these requested changes in Marisa Kirisame's article shortly. We can continue to reach concensus by adjusting between those two.
--Leviathean 17:59, 21 May 2005 (PDT)

Thanks for responding. I agree with most of your points, and would like to elaborate a few things:
  • The gray boxes on the my test page don't contain pre-formatted text. It's a style attribute inside the <tr>. I work with an 800x600 window and don't like horizontal scrollbars either
  • Mokou's profile also uses section breaks (horizontal rules). I can be blamed for both offences ;)
  • a centred separator of any kind would work as well as an <hr>. What do you suggest? I used separators mainly for 3 cases:
    1. 2 or more consecutive line breaks in the Japanese text
    2. centred "--" in Japanese text
    3. paragraph preceded by "--" in Japanese text
  • It'd be consistent, section-separation-wise, to use anything but horizontal rules to separate ===subsections=== and other small divisions. Boxes, dotted lines, shaded backgrounds, pictures...
  • Oh, right, Japanese text has always been indented. But it didn't bug me as much because the box containing the text was in alignment with the English text.
--Deciare 18:18, 21 May 2005 (PDT)

Arg, you posted before I did. Okay, let's see.
  • Ah, the gray box isn't the preformatted-text box like I feared, but just a background color change inside a table. Smart.
  • Let's keep the table simple. Instead of having a colspan=2, why not just end the table after the picture and write the translation underneath?
  • What is the class="ProfileQuote" supposed to do?
--Leviathean 18:14, 21 May 2005 (PDT)

Oops, and then you posted before me. Um... I think the posts are in chronological order now. Anyway!
  • Thanks
  • I don't know. I guess I'll try that now
  • class="ProfileQuote" might be useful if we change the default site-wide stylesheet to tint its background, italicise its text, or somesuch. So we don't need a separate style attribute for each <tr>
--Deciare 18:18, 21 May 2005 (PDT)

Okay, it seems that we have a nice format now for adding official profiles. We should probably wait a little while (like a day or two) before we start modifying the rest of the profiles, in case someone else has helpful suggestions. Hmm, I guess you put the translation back inside the table because of the extra padding it automatically gets between it and the next profile? I suppose I can't complain; it does look slightly better than the other way. Also, any reason for color #f5f5f5? I think color #f8f8f8 is the one that the preformated text uses, as well as the <code> or <tt> tags... Doesn't stand out as much though. I wonder if there's an easy way to add a border around just the coloured part.
--Leviathean 12:57, 23 May 2005 (PDT)

Pre-formatted text uses #f9f9f9, which is almost invisible without a border. Since I can't get a border to show up around an entire table row (tested with Firefox and Konqueror), I thought I'd darken the background some more. I might be able fake a border by fiddling with individual table cells, but that'd be unpleasantly hostile toward any site-wide stylesheets we might come up with later.
Japanese uses a monospaced font on most non-Japanese OS'es, I think, so the presence or absence of <tt> may not make much of a difference. Is the (usually larger) font size for variable-width fonts bothering you?
I put the translation back inside the table because it's the same semantic unit of information. If someone were to view the articles using a stylesheet that shows borders around tables, then it'd look strange for some parts of information to be shown inside a table while other parts of the same information are shown outside.
--Deciare 13:22, 23 May 2005 (PDT)

No, the font for Japanese looks fine on my computer, just something to keep in mind in case we do use monotype fonts in the future. Although, if the addition of borders sacrifices too much readability/maintainability for just a cosmetic look, I vote that we just darken the background colour of those cells instead.
--Leviathean 14:38, 23 May 2005 (PDT)

I don't suppose too much maintainability will be sacrificed. If we use borders, we'll want to make those part of a CSS class as well. One class for each table cell (the picture cell and the text cell). And we may or may not need to take out the style attributes hardcoded into each tag. Hard to say now, really, since I can't seem to get user stylesheets working, so I can't test anything. Maybe they're not enabled or, more likely, I'm doing something wrong.
--Deciare 15:48, 23 May 2005 (PDT)

I have a question regarding "ability to call on the power of Gods"

isn't that supposedly what all Shrine Maidens are supposedly to have as well, in that case would that not not be an ability she has but a trait of shrine maidens?? 07:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)wrathie

Er, point 16 of the fun facts : "Something MUGEN fans have run away with", the video has been removed on youtube and I don't very know where it lead...--Akiro 09:12, 15 August 2010

Reimu's Abilities:

Just wondering: has her "ability to fly/float" that she had in the first windows games been retconned, or should it be added in her main profile? Even though it's not really much of an ability in Gensokyo, her last word specifically references it.

--Spadequeen 06:27, December 3, 2009 (UTC)
Her ability to fly is not just in the air but rather over abstract concepts as well. She overcomes the challenges in each game by flying over the improbability of her succeeding. It's a form of plot armor.

-- 00:48, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

That's real deep. But no, she just "overcomes the challenges" because it's her job as a shrine maiden and as the player character. Her ability to fly is physical only.
--Song ofthe apple 00:55, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

TH02 character images

The pictures for the characters in TH02 - Story of Eastern Wonderland are very small. I've been thinking about enlarging them to double the size. It looks much better in my opinion but I want others comment before I proceed. --Svinto 21:59, 04 Ferbuary 2007 (GTM+1)

normal double double with bicubic resampling
Bicubic looks pretty good, try sharpening it a little though if that doesn't make it all pixelated again. -7HS
Have you tried hq2x/hq3x/hq4x? They tend to give unrivaled quality and sharpness for pixel-art sources like these. 02:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Requesting Source

Latest edit put "Reimu invented the Spellcard Combat System." into the Fun Facts. That's a pretty big statement and one I haven't heard of before. What is the source/basis for this statement? --Psieye 20:59, 7 March 2007 (PST)

Well, if spellcards = ofuda, technically she was the first one to use them. I know not what the person who added that was thinking, though. -7HS
It's from Perfect Memento.
Although there're some room for speculation (one of Unresolved Materials), officially it's her that invented the system, according to Akyu.

I'm starting to get this warning when editing-

WARNING: This page is 32 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections.

It's only going to get larger when Touhou 10 is released (assuming she's in it, which she wasn't in 9.5). Is this an extremely outdated warning from before the days of 1Mb/sec download speeds, streaming live video, and 3D MMORPGs?

About Main profile pictures

Discuss it here

Reimu's age

Is there any canon material anywhere - profiles, dialogue, books, interviews, anything - that specifies or even hints at Reimu's age? I have not seen a single reference to it anywhere.

If there is nothing in canon, her age should be listed as "unknown".

In case it wasn't obvious, Touhou suffers from Simpsons Syndrome in relation to characters' ages. Yes the series have a timeline etc. but the characters themselves do not age normally. And since ZUN loves being vague and ambiguous about things like this, "Age:" really means "Age at first appearance:" on this wiki.--Umhyuk 09:17, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Read before you delete. ZUN's own words: "If I say how old she is, she’ll have to keep getting older. Suffice it to say they’re getting older. Besides, if she gets too old, I’m afraid some day she’d get too old to play danmaku." That is the complete opposite of what you said.
1. If a dispute is up, you keep the old revision of the page.
2. Nowhere in that sentence is it ever explained how much older she gets. Is it a month between games, a year, a day?--Umhyuk 13:56, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
How could she get a month older after a year passes? You aren't making any sense. Cirno doesn't look 60+ years old, but she's been around for over 60 years. Yukari appears to be in her 20s, but her age is listed as 1,200+. Reimu's been around for 5 years since ZUN described her as "mid-teens", therefore she's 5 years older. It doesn't matter how much she aged physically, which you can't even tell from his drawings (he said not to trust them). And anyway, how would she get "too old to play danmaku" if she isn't aging physically? It doesn't fit with what ZUN said.
The old version of the page has zero research, citations, or evidence, so I'm putting mine back up. Don't remove valid research and leave nothing in its place. Kapow751 15:12, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry if I'm just barging in an ongoing argument, but if the "Age:" does mean the current age of the character, which is what I believe Kapow751 is trying to prove here, probably all other characters should have their ages changed? So Flandre should no longer be 495 but instead 502 or 503? Now the problem is Flandre could be actually 496 or 512 - way off what I just expected her age to be, based on the time passed since EoSD came out.
We wouldn't be able to know Flandre's current and actual age because there's no official statement from ZUN stating her current age - we only have his statement that these characters get older. What Umhyuk is trying to explain here is that we cannot assume that the characters will get a year older every year just because ZUN said the characters will age. Yes I do see Kapow's and ZUN's point that characters get older, but at what rate is the remaining question.
Anyways I hope this issue could be solved without too much dispute. I see a possible major edit war going on in this article, and I'll try see if anything comes up so that we can clear up this issue. Deathsoul4 16:18, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
Again, how could "the characters will get a year older every year" not be true? If Reimu was born in (for example) 1990, then in 2004 she would be 14 (mid-teens), and in 2009 she would be 19. That's what age is, we aren't listing physical ages (see Cirno, Yukari, Remilia, etc.), we're listing the time that's passed while they were alive. Yes, every other character is also 5-6 years older since EoSD, because in TH12 it is 5 years later and they have lived 5 more years since then.
If Flandre was 495 in 2004, then she is 500 in 2009. She will be 512 in 2021. You could always put "in 2004" or "during EoSD" on Remilia and Flandre's ages in their profiles, to make it more clear. I only put Reimu's present age up because she's young and human, so 5 years is a bigger deal to her than to someone who's lived 100 times that long and has an indefinite lifespan. Kapow751 18:36, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
I see... Thanx for your taking your time to reply. I'll look to both possibilities. There's this quote I got from here: "Note that although the Windows games seem to follow a real-time progression as shown in this timeline, the human protagonists, Reimu Hakurei and Marisa Kirisame, don't apparently age beyond their mid-teens." The quote traces back to SuddenFrost's edit dating back to August 24th of 2009. Maybe we need to check the source of this quote. Deathsoul4 19:23, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
This discussion is age old on this wiki, and the general consensus is that Age means "Age at first appearance:". Just check out the history of the Remillia and Flandre pages for edit comments about this. Also keep in mind that unless it is a translation of a canon source it is not canon, even on this wiki. So don't use it as basis in an argument about canon. In case it isn't obvious, the timeline is full of errors based around stupid assumptions people has done, the only place it is reliable is where it has the explicit backing of the BAiJR.
I'm all for axing the whole age tag like anon suggests and degrade it to a fun fact for the characters where it is relevant. I would also suggest not blatantly ignoring parts of the discussion such as "If a dispute is up, you keep the old revision of the page."--Umhyuk 20:40, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
In that case I'm also for scraping the ages and put them in the Fun Facts section. So many characters have unknown ages anyways. Deathsoul4 20:46, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
I double-checked the timeline for the games, actually. If you read in the Prologue for each game it almost always says the current season, and there's often a direct reference to the previous game. Aside from TH06 being a little early, all of the games fit together perfectly if each takes place on the year it was released. For example, TH10.5 was released almost a year after TH10, the first line of the prologue: "Almost a year has passed since the shrine maiden went to the mountain." BAiJR confirms it for the earlier games, so it's absurd to think he stopped doing it and the games keep fitting the pattern just by coincidence.
Anyway, I agree the age should be left off the profiles. ZUN refuses to give exact ages for anyone, and there's only a handful of characters whose ages can even be estimated. All of the rest are complete unknowns. It looks bad to have 90% of the profiles saying "Unknown", like nobody bothered to fill it in. Kapow751 04:44, October 11, 2010 (UTC)
That quote on the timeline is someone's opinion. That's the problem with this wiki, there are all these profiles and "fun facts" and location descriptions and most of it is completely uncited. Who knows how much of it is speculation, or just plain wrong? Who ever checks it? Kapow751 04:44, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Why don't we just ax the age from all from character descriptions? Pretty much everyone is either over 1000/undetermined. 19:41, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like we're all in favor of removing the ages, are we gonna do this or what? Is there an editor-in-chief or someone we should check with before we go updating every profile on the site? I don't want to waste my time editing 100 pages if somebody's just going to reverse them all. Kapow751 22:54, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
This wiki has no authority. Just someone who deletes spam and blocks spammers when we ask him too. Also, there's no need to edit all of the character pages right away. The removal of age can be done with a simple tweak to the template it uses. The data would still be there, but it just wouldn't show up.
So far, there seems to be no objections. Feel free to raise any objections, anyone. 23:05, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think ages should be removed, as some ages are sort of determined...for example Alice Margatroid became a youkai when she was a human, therefore for a youkai, she is young. MaronaPossessed 02:14, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
==Fun Facts==
* Having become a Youkai through training between the events of Mystic Square and Perfect Cherry Blossom, Alice is relatively young for a Youkai.
Or something like that. 02:31, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
And as an added bonus, the age trolling (YUKARI IS OVER 9000/17 YEARS OLD) would finally stop. I hope we're all in agreement here. 00:25, October 19, 2010 (UTC)