Talk:Patchouli Knowledge

On a small semantics note, I'd say Patchouli would be more of a Mage than a Witch due to how she practices as well as how she carries herself. Interesting notes, what's the semantical difference between a Witch a Magician and a Sorcerer? I suppose you could throw Wizard and Warlock in there too.

Sorry for making so many dead pages. >_> -- Regris

Well, I believe that a Witch is synonomous with Magician, but I used Magician exclusively because of the gender-specific nature of the term Witch. Also, for some reason Witch doesn't sound as refined as Magician or Sorceress to me... all the years the Church has been bad-mouthing the term "witch" or wise women in general has gotten to me, it seems.

--Leviathean 06:18, 1 Jun 2005 (PDT)

Well, talking from semantical point of view...

At Th02 Marisa had title of "Sorceress", also in TH03 Ellen was "Witch", these make me believe that all Witch Sorceress Magician mean for same thing in ZUN's world.

Parhaps as he gradually learned about English he updated the name of that, but in Patchouli's case it's already defined in previous series so he couldn't change it... well, just my thought.

--Aona

The two choices of words really aren't related to English at all - remember, these games were originally in Japanese, not English. These are Japanese words: 「魔女」 or "magic woman," and 「魔法使い」 or "magic user." I would have no idea as to why ZUN changed his word choice, though.--192.5.109.49 19:46, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

It looks to me like patchouli is being called a magician and "natural magician" a about 4 times in Perfect Momento, but isn't being called a witch there(unless it's a translation error?) anymore. Should this be taken as patchouli's species/race now officially being magician instead of witch like she's been labeled as in past official profiles? Even if there's no clear difference between the two, yet, she seems to be labeled as a magician now.

Anemia or Asthma?

On the page, the diagnosis of Patchouli's lung problem somewhat switches between Anemia and Asthma. This indecision intrigued me, and I've figured that, judging from evidence from the games and the appearance of her disorder in official and fan works, Patchouli seems to suffer from Anemia, not Asthma. For those who do not know the difference between the two, Anemia is a hemoglobin deficiency, which results in problem with having air flowing into and out of one's lungs, and excess blood loss, both of which explain her poor constitution; Asthma is just an inflammation or buildup of mucus in the airways of the lungs, and has no other severe or major effects. --ArseneLupin3 23:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Her official profile only mentions asthma, lack of vitamin A, and overall weak health. Anemia probably came from the fans, because it fits the image of a sickly girl. --Nietz 14:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Profile - because of the asthma she was born with, she often cannot recite the spells

Dialogue - Sob sob... I'm so anemic I can't even recite the spells...

Maybe she has both? AoA 15:10, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a possibility, and it wouldn't be an isolated case of such a combination of chronic diseases. It's also possible that ZUN confused the two, as that happens very often as well. --ArseneLupin3 20:58, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

2 or 3 or 4 or 8 or?

In her IaMP dialogue, in the current translation, Patchy says "divided in half twice or even thrice", the current misc fact says 3 or 4 (changed from 2 or 3), but wouldn't the math mean 2^2 (4) or 2^3 (8)? On the other hand, going by 2 or 3 split (２でも３でも割れる), it seems that 3 or 4 is correct... As a useless side note, 96 is divisible by 1,2,3,4,6,8,16,32,48, and 96. Oreng3 09:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

to note, your list is missing 12 and 24. I believe the significance of 96 has something to do with being the largest whole number within 100 that bears the most denominators (6 of them). As an aside, all of the explanations you've provided apply accurately so its a matter of space and preference which to employ.

---

In the [version], we find the sentence about the impression of Grand Library in Musoukakyou. But I think it's rather unproper to list that comment about a particular fanfic. It should have the very high quality affecting Touhou fans all over the world, but there's not a reason enough to list the sentense. --Masuo64 04:42, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, you're quite right. I'll remove the sentence, as it's not official information. Furthermore, it would actually upset some other fans, as it could be considered as taking a fanime's information as official... something ZUN himself has stated would have a negative, or at least unfavorable, effect overall. --ArseneLupin3 04:57, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Reason for adding "Witch" alongside "Magician"

ZUN seems to be inconsistent as to whether to call her 「魔女」 (majo, or "magic woman" i. e. "witch"), which is a very gender-specific word, or 「魔法使い」 (mahou tukai, or "magic user"), which is gender-neutral. Except for Chireiden (Subterranean Animism), all official profiles state that her species is "majo." She is referred to twice as "majo" in Bohemian Archive, but five times as "mahou tukai" in Perfect Memento. Thus, both terms are used, although "majo" is more frequent. I think that it is therefore appropriate to mention both "magician" and the more gender-specific "witch."--192.5.109.49 19:41, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Correct Pronunciation?

Are we sure that it should really be "Pachurii~" and not "Patch-oo-lee"?

It's true this is how they would pronounce her name,but isn't it likely due to her name her orgins aren't japan? This would mean it would be a matter of it simply being pronounced wrong. The actual word "Patchouli" is pronounced with an l instead of an r based off the dictionary,r and l commonly being mistaken in japanese. --74.105.35.173 18:26, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Katakana is phonetic, so yes. It's as close to "pat.ʃu.li" as they can get. 68.84.74.52 19:08, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Well,this is just thinking of Gensokyo...but...lets consider for the moment that Remmy,Flan,Patch,etc,are all European and NOT Japanese.Text is obviously made for the viewer to understand,but that may not accurately represent the person. So does that mean that the 3 have actually changed both their primary language and their pronounciation,or do they speak their actual names natively and Reimu is left dumbfounded as to what they just said? I just have a hard time understanding the idea of a "correct pronunciation",on characters who seem to leave a lot of question as to how THEY would say it. It's like Flan and Fran,they're both right depending on who you ask.

It's kinda like a suspension of disbelief,sure we may pronounce it as "Pachurii",but i don't understand why the actual Patchouli would pronounce her name "Patchurii" --74.105.35.173 03:01, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

They're both right. How about that? Gensokyo and its residents are ambiguous, so the correct answer can be ambiguous as well. 68.84.74.52 03:57, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Thats technically what i'm trying to say.There shouldn't really be a "correct" pronunciation,because they're all valid depending on who you talk to. Whether it be the Japanese pronunciation,an english one,or what have you.It's hard to pick a particular one due to the Scarlet house's orgins,and the fact it's disputable how they themselves would pronounce their own names. For now until a reason can be given,i'm going to omit that from the page. --74.105.35.173 22:03, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but if you look at Reimu's talk page, you can see that Umhyuk posted that "If a dispute is up, you keep the old revision of the page." So you'll have to undo your edit. If there is consent among editors then you can remove the section.

My thoughts on this issue is that I'm against removing the whole section for some reasons: Her nickname section (where it mentions her being called 'Pache') should be kept, and instead of removing the 'pachurii' section you can add that 'patchouli' should be the correct pronunciation in the west. How's that? Deathsoul4 22:16, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Hm, let me elaborate. If both 'Pachurii' and 'Patchouli' are valid pronunciations, then both should be correct rather than just saying that there isn't a correct pronunciation (cuz, after all, they are both "correct", right?). So I'm thinking that keeping both pronunciations can work out. Deathsoul4 22:22, October 28, 2010 (UTC)]

I believe you opposed to it's removal are missing the point.It's fine if it's an alternate pronunciation.The problem is that it calls it the "Correct" Pronunciation.To add even if it were to be changed to "a" pronunciation,it's in the fun facts section.I do not believe it should be in the section at all should it be changed,and i do not think it's correct to claim it as the one true pronunciation. However,i will undo the edit until we've decided on this. --Anon2057 22:49, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

I will say that it's okay to say they're all correct,rather then say you can call patchouli anything.However that still just makes it 'a' pronunciation vs the correct one.it would be better if this were moved to the section that lists her pronunciations/names though. --Anon2057 22:55, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Gotcha, I see that Suika Ibuki has a separate section devoted to explaining her name. How about making such name section for Patchouli as well? Then we can remove the name issue from her Fun Facts. Although it would be good if the nickname 'Pache' can stay in the fun facts, it has to do with the Japanese pronunciation, so I guess it'll have to go into the name section. Deathsoul4 03:54, October 29, 2010 (UTC)