Forum:Copyright Violations

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Copyright Violations

It has come to my attention that on this very wiki, there exist many examples of grave copyright violation, in direct violation of Wikia community guidelines as seen here: http://www.wikia.com/Licensing. I will make a brief listing here:

1) Text appropriated directly from official print works and other copyrighted sources. Includes scenarios from games, lyrics, omake.txt, PMiss, Grimoire of Marisa, etc. While summaries are okay, and small text excerpts are sometimes covered under fair use, the wholesale reprint of text from, for instance, Curiosities of Lotus Asia, should not be tolerated. Thus, any copyrighted text that doesn't fall under fair use on this wiki (read: the official print works hosted on here) should be removed - that includes both the original Japanese and the English translation (the latter is debatable though). Additionally, any external links to direct downloads (on Mediafire, for instance) will have to be removed. 2) Game patches - Patches designed to modify the game in any way, including adding translations. Includes all English patches for official games as well as English patches for doujin works. Although we do not provide links to full game downloads, we do provide links to English patches and the like. However, in terms of copyright violation, distributing a game patch is an unambiguous copyright violations, as the copyright owner has the sole right over translations and distribution. Whether or not the English patches may provide a wider audience for the copyright owner is irrelevant, as this is for the owner, and only the owner to decide. As such, any links to game patches should also be removed. 3)Scanlations - Manga/doujinshi with English text added onto them. Includes Strange and Bright Nature Deity, everything in the Comic section, etc. Unambiguous copyright violation. Any links to fully scanlated comic downloads will have to go, translated or not. We also have a few raw unaltered Japanese scans (some from Oriental Sacred Place for instance) that we won't be able to delete (as there are no admins), but we can upload blank files over those. 4) Subs - Video (copyrighted, sold) with subtitles. If we have any links to these, they have to go.

You may choose to argue any of the points above, but quoth Wikia, "Work which you do not hold the copyright to, or which is not available under this license, should not be added to Wikia." Most of the above does not fall under fair use. It has to go.

The fact that material may not be hosted on Wikia and is widely available on the Internet is irrelevant. The above are direct violations of copyright law and Wikia policy. If Wikia is to set a good example (not to mention abide by the law), we are going to have to axe everything that violates copyright. I'd hate for Wikia to get hit by a lawsuit. I believe Wikia should set a good example, acting as a shining beacon of ethics and morality, in contrast to the dirty pirates found on the Internet. This isn't 4chan, after all. It's a reputable Web 2.0 company. We should follow ethics and comply with the law.

Summary: Regardless of material being freely available on the Internet, Wikia should be not engaging in questionably legal activities that infringe on copyright. It is piracy, it is not fair use, and it is illegal. Pirates who want their comics can go look elsewhere. No one would ask for game downloads on shrinemaiden. No one should ask for copyrighted material here.

The old community has gone. It's time to take this wiki into a new era and make Touhou Wikia a better place, one that isn't tarnished with the spectre of copyright violation! If I do not receive any viable arguments to the contrary, I will start to remove copyright violations from this site, and any users who restore copyrighted content will be reported to Wikia staff for repeated copyvio. Have a nice day. Pufferfish101 03:16, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

Interesting points you bring up! I agree that this is a potential issue to the health of the wiki and should be dealt with, with all deliberate speed. I don't think everything listed is a copyright violation and things need to be reviewed on a case by case basis.

Instead of waiting for a mass deletion of materials one member views as copyright infringement and someone else restoring these articles to involve the Wikia staff, I went ahead and sent them an e-mail regarding this post and details relating to the current trouble this particular wiki has undergone recently. That way they understand that a lot of work needs to be done here and that we are working as fast as possible to avoid copyright infringement. I think it would be best if we work directly with the Wikia staff to determine what violates copyright and what doesn't, instead of deleting everything now and trying to restore it later.

With the problems of so many deleted articles in the wiki and this additional new problem, I think that we should consider an extended review period before starting the deletion of copyrighted content. People can start purposing articles for deletion now, and I will suggest that the review period should be two weeks before we start actually editing content. At that time, articles should be edited to remove copyrighted content, not entirely deleted. If anyone thinks it should be longer or shorter, please state so and explain why.

I think by working together we can make this wiki strong, after all we are all just Touhou fans here.VS3025 06:17, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

Oh wow, I didn't actually expect a response from anyone. But yes, your method is better. There should probably be a template made for this purpose, similar to the ones they use on Wikipedia. Pufferfish101 09:17, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

How many templates would you need? One for the actually Copyright review, maybe another for just a portion of the page being copyrighted (unless every page with links and copyright problems is a full page), there's already a speedy deleted pages template.

We'd only need one template, but the speedy deletion template is inadequate, as it doesn't explain why the content was removed. The template would be used as such: remove all the content, and then slap the page with a template so that people know where the page has gone. I can start today; I'll send a notice to the Wikia moderators first so they know what I'm doing. Note that Wikia policy, as on Wikipedia, dictates that contested material must be taken down before any discussion, after which it may be restored upon community agreement. "Let's wait to removed the material until a consensus is reached" is an invalid argument. I am anticipating trolls and multis to come and try to keep their pirated material though, so I will make sure to notify Sarah Manley and co. if anyone tries to add back copyrighted material before consensus is reached to restore it (unless the material is a blatant copyvio, in which case no consensus is needed for permanent deletion).

Pufferfish101 18:00, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

I think that this process should be a little more delicate than "delete everything, put template up saying this page removed due to copyright infringement."

When possible, only the copyrighted materials should be removed (including links to copyrighted material hosted on other web pages). The remainder of the page should not be affected. When deleting copyrighted content, the user who does the deletion should also replace it with a summary whenever possible. As Pufferfish101 said "While summaries are okay, and small text excerpts are sometimes covered under fair use..." I think the goal of this part of the clean-up should be to remove any questionable content, while ensuring that the wiki remains at a high quality.

Also, when deleting content, it would be helpful if when you explain why it is being removed, you cite the copyright statute so we know why it is in violation (For example, this material was removed for being in violation of US Copyright section § 113.2b). If questionable material must be taken down then it needs to be established why the content is questionable as it is taken down, "because I said it is questionable" is not a valid reason. If there are lingering questions about this, I purpose we contact the Wikia Copyright Agent, Michael Davis, at copyright@wikia.com to figure out how we should approach this.

Although... I still believe we should put this off until we recover from the childish vandalism we have suffered. There are a lot of problems with the wiki right now and solving one problem at a time would be more efficient than splitting efforts among different things. However, if other users want to move ahead on this project, I don't see any problems.

In addition, I guess this finally settles the question of whether or not any links to the other wiki should remain on this one. As it itself is a host of copyrighted content, we would be remiss to link other users to it. Please do not create or restore links, as we would not want to be in violation of anything. As a matter of fact, I'm surprised Pufferfish101, who seems so gung-ho about this clean-up, would suggest "I'd argue that deleting links to the other wiki without restoring deleted content is, in fact, worse than just leaving the links there, since it leaves users with no way to get to the content at all." Do you want us to link to copyrighted content or not?

As a matter of fact, I think you are the troll, you are acting like a child, and you should move on and let the people who want to stay here stay here without interfering further. Stop treating your fellow Touhou fans like dirt because you have some sort of dispute with Wikia. It was made clear that people did not have to move if they didn't want to.

VS3025 19:40, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

You may think this copyright nonsense is silly, but that attitude is prevalent on the internet. I assure you this is quite serious. And as I have said before, a notice will have to be put up detailing why the material was removed.

"I think that this process should be a little more delicate than 'delete everything, put template up saying this page removed due to copyright infringement.'"

Delete everything? I think you're being just a little paranoid here. I'm talking about deleting copyrighted material here, and only the copyrighted material. For instance, all the Grimoire of Marisa pages would have to go. However, the portraits of Reimu on her page are fair use. Some of the quoted text below may not be, although I think it is. Listings of comics are fine, while links to their shares are not.

"I think the goal of this part of the clean-up should be to remove any questionable content, while ensuring that the wiki remains at a high quality."

Precisely.

If you really want to contact the Copyright agent, that is fine too. However, I think most of the examples I am talking about are unambiguous.

I can go ahead and move ahead with this project while you take care of the other one (I have no idea of telling which articles were blanked anyway) if that is your concern.

Regarding links to the other wiki, I have not created or restored any links since you started restoring articles (and I was not the person who created them in the first place). The few exceptions are my userpage (which links to my personal userpage on the other wiki and which I think I am allowed to have, as it is in userspace) and those links in the archive that you removed for some reason, but which should be restored for archival reasons. We do not want to censor connections to the other wiki, but we will not (from this point on) encourage users to go there as people have tried to do in the past.

"As a matter of fact, I'm surprised Pufferfish101, who seems so gung-ho about this clean-up, would suggest "I'd argue that deleting links to the other wiki without restoring deleted content is, in fact, worse than just leaving the links there, since it leaves users with no way to get to the content at all." Do you want us to link to copyrighted content or not?"

In fact, I was being a little too nice there and considering the users who might come here by Google. But copyright is copyright, and pirates are pirates. All those links at the tops of articles should be removed, post haste. Then the users who wanted to find information on Touhou will find a blank page, without any notice telling them why. But I suppose this is the legal way to do things. You seem to support it, so I support it as well.

"As a matter of fact, I think you are the troll, you are acting like a child, and you should move on and let the people who want to stay here stay here without interfering further. Stop treating your fellow Touhou fans like dirt because you have some sort of dispute with Wikia. It was made clear that people did not have to move if they didn't want to."

I think you've let the whole Wikia thing get to your head. Most of those who have moved have already moved, and all that conflict is now in the past; the few who have decided to stay have decided not to leave. It's quite sad that you call me a troll, when in fact I only want the best for this wiki. Can't I be a member of both wikis? Or is cohesiveness within the Touhou community not allowed? Is this why people from shrinemaiden/Doujinstyle/Lunatic Red never talk to each other?

I see that you have genuine concerns here, but I fear you might be obstructive out of the fear that this is some feud with Wikia. That is silly; do I have to have a feud with Wikia just because I support the new wiki? How's this for you - the same copyright discussion has been going on in the other wiki. There has been no consensus there, due to a lack of clear copyright policy. However, there is a clear copyright policy on Wikia. Thus, it should be followed. Pufferfish101 02:45, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Are we following the copyrights that were translated as well? And, the links.. I'm still taking down. One link is still enough. You are the only one who wants it and frankly... your opinion is very biased. I've looked at the other wiki and what's talked about, but this is not the other wiki and all those other people left. If you're going to be doing something, then do it to better this wiki without the other one in mind. Fixing the site up copyright wise is very nice, but you don't seem to be going about it in a very good way. I'll make a template to label all the pages and add them to a category that lists them as violating copyright. Translated copyrights --Imanie 03:11, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

{{copyvio|<section>|<reason>}} template.

Translations can be debated. On the one hand, they are not the original material. On the other hand, it is a direct derivative from the original material, one that follows it very closely. The copyright person can get on that, if we ask him.

"One link is still enough." I'm not sure what you are talking about. There are no links on the front page anywhere on the wiki, and the links on the article pages will be taken down soon, as they should be. However, past discussion is still past discussion. No one is going to see those links, as they have been archived. But altering a record of conversation is silly. I can get Wikia staff to intervene and impose a compromise if you wish, as they have the final say.

I may come about as a bit harsh and overbearing, but that's the way it is, really. I'll admit, I was more than a bit obnoxious in my first post, but the points I made were based on fact. I'm not trying to gut this wiki, really! All the core material will still be here - the characters pages, gameplay pages, lyrics, etc. I may be biased, but copyright violations are copyright violations, regardless of whoever points them out. I only brought up the discussion on the other wiki to explain why I suddenly brought up this issue here. And in any case, this copyright discussion does not pertain to the other wiki, but to Wikia and its guidelines and policies.

Nice start on the template though. I don't think we will need it for all the pages (for instance, we wouldn't necessarily use it on a page where a small section was taken out) but it will be used primarily for the pages where the entire text is copyrighted.

Pufferfish101 04:29, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

PS by "few who have decided to stay", pufferfish means the 2 autistic kids who thought it would be a good idea to ignore a decision agreed upon by the entire community. That is, if it's not a retard using multiple accounts. Master Bigode 19:20, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

In regard to translation copyright, § 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works states that derivative works belong to the author, so I think all of the translations of printed works fall under that. The printed works section should probably be reformatted to contain a listing of printed works and a summary of their contents, but they can't be the straight rips the way are right now.

While links to english patches should be removed, it is still fine to acknowledge their existence. We can't provide links to copyrighted content, but we aren't responsible if someone knows there is a patch and does a google search for it.

Scenario translations are a little more questionable. Let me know what you guys think.

VS3025 21:08, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it would be nice if we could replace the translated printed works with English summaries, which are noticeably lacking (not everyone has the time to read through walls of text).

Agree with your stance on English patches.

Scenarios are indeed questionable. Nothing in Zun's statement explicitly forbids them. I think they might be okay (aren't they just transcripts of the game text?) but we could always remove the Japanese original if anyone has a concern with it - the English can probably stay. If they are taken from the game files, that is another matter though, and they should probably be removed. Pufferfish101 22:09, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

In other words, "Let's build a wiki with the same information that the new host has and will have in the future, but without the stuff that we think shouldn't be on there. Most of the members that regularly contributed to this wiki moved to the new host, but that doesn't matter. Also, everyone should stay here because it's better than the new host." Yeah, sure. Drake Irving 07:17, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

It has come to my attention that the current policy is being ignored (in particular, the restoration of game patches). Whether you guys like it or not, the new wiki, as well as the sites that host game patches, comics, or whatnot, fall under the same umbrella. You can either choose to ignore Wikia's copyright policy altogether, or respect them. Whichever way you want to lean, there should be consistency across the site. Pick one. If there was something wrong procedurally, then this needs to be made much more clear. Kiefmaster99 07:29, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

We are following Wikia's copyright policy. Show where we have downloaded and hosted copyrighted content. Saying "it does not fall under fair use" does not count and is not a way to say that it's breaking copyright, because that, in its own right, does not mean we can't use it. Go take a look at what Wikia says about copyright in its terms of use and show where it says we're infringing. I looked into it :) You can either do what we said earlier and start labeling, or leave and not help out like you've been doing :D --Imanie 23:40, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Wikia: Work which you do not hold the copyright to... should not be added to Wikia.; If you are uploading files to Wikia, you should cite the source of the file, attribute the authors, and note any copyright information,

I encourage you to read that essay regrading scanlations I linked to on my Talk, then try to refute my claim of copyright.

Based on your comments you left on my talk page, you also seem to support the removal of links to pages that do not host content in violation of copyright, but are hosted on the same site implicated in copyright violation. Do you want to make this official?

Anyways, I'm only interested in implementing protocol that is easy for Users to follow. But even then, I would argue that putting a big red sign on every game page is an eyesore, but if you insist, sure. Kiefmaster99 00:14, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Nope :p I was saying what I did because you said they were in violation of copyright. If one link is doing that, and another one does the same, then they both should be removed. I did end up reading the entire Terms of Use on Wiki and looking up fair use, copyrights, etc. quite a bit, because I can only believe the best out of what people tell me to a point. So I found out more in my own free time. Now, if this is about copyright infringement, where are we hosting full scanlations or copyrighted material on this wiki that we have no given credit for on this wiki?

I'm also not going to pay to read an essay one time on a site I don't go to o.o thanks, but no thanks.

If you are so gung-ho about copyright violations, talk to the people that are hosting full scanlations or talk to the web owner (the person the website is actually paying) and tell them that they could be sued for hosting that type of content. But yes, post the copy-vio up on pages, if it's actually in violation on this wiki, it will be removed, if it's not, you'll know when we remove the template.

Removing links we don't want? We are allowed to do that at any time, it is a wiki, after all. --Imanie 00:55, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

First, I must apologize for suggesting you read that essay. I was not aware that you had to pay for access (which is covered by my institution apparently). Then I will post an excerpt. That should clear any concerns.

Prima facie, scanlation is unlawful because it is an unauthorized translation and

reproduction. According to Japanese copyright law, artists are entitled to the right to

translate, reproduce and exploit derivative works (CRIC, 2008). Their copyright is protected

in foreign countries such as the US by virtue of the Berne Convention for the

Protection of Literary and Artistic Works 1886.

Using the same reasoning, this applies to game patches, etc.

Second, I should point out that you guys apparently debated this whole copyright thing way before (see way above). I am merely assisting.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your last point about links, but you do agree that links not be removed without fair rationale, right? I'll clarify what I mean.

"Removal of links to pages with copyrighted material" is different from "Removal of links to sites involved in hosting copyrighted material". You can also choose to replace the word "copyrighted" with "illegal". For example, under the first, I would be able to link to the main pages of most English Touhou websites, but under the second, this would exclude them. I don't care too much which one you choose, so long as said policy is followed. Kiefmaster99 01:34, February 13, 2011 (UTC)