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Initial layout discussion

I believe that it would be wise to establish a standard layout for all character pages, pertaining primarily to images.

I volunteer this:

Main Profile Image - In-Game image from most recent game (In many cases, this would be TH09).
Official Profiles - Include an image of the character from every game that she appears in, including PC-98 incarnations, in order from least to most recent:
* Game Manual Image - Image of character from digital Manual, if available.
* キャラ設定.txt Image (where applicable) - Image of character from in-game.

This is similar to the layout already used on many pages, though not uniformly.

Image dimensions ought also to be uniform, and in many cases, are.

Comments?

If there are no arguments, I will begin applying this to the profiles. It could always be modified later, anyway.

- White Knell

Additionally, would there be interest in adding sprite sheets (and related graphics) to Character pages? I would be more than happy to do all the work involving these (very little, truly, with the tools provided by S"), if there were interest.

- White Knell

Hey, thanks for the images. They're great. But we should come up with a proper naming scheme. I have to go through and delete all the old versions now. Ugh. Ideally, the secondary "profile" image should be using a different expression than the first one. I think that would look nice. - J5983 15:25, 17 October 2005 (PDT)

I had the same thought. I would assist in the deletion of unused images, but I am not sure that I can, or at least I do not know how. --White Knell 17:54, 17 October 2005 (PDT)

Yeah, don't worry about it. It's restricted to admins to prevent abuse. As for the sprites, how about adding them to the character pages for the games? Like Embodiment of Scarlet Devil: Characters. Stick it in there somewhere. - J5983 18:37, 17 October 2005 (PDT)

- Kainti (2007-01-13) Is it OK to add to appearances characters from Touhou Rekkaden? Or is it limited only to official games?

- Kaorin (2007-01-13) 13:11 Official games only.

Main profile pictures

Hm... I've been wondering - what's the use of the same pictures in "Main profile" and "Official profiles" section? Wouldn't it be better looking to place Alphes' and Auer's pics in "Main profile" section? Yeah, I know they are by far NOT any official pics, but anyone can look at official pictures at the "Official profiles" section, and "Main profile" part just would be kinda better-looking... Renivall Jeagerjacques 13:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

After [latest edit], the image is SWR version. But the second latest edit has turned it to the SA version. I think we may as well revert it to the SA version. If the deep love for Alphes's picture keeps SWR Reimu's image next by the profile though ZUN releasing a new Touhou game, we must face her in SWR version with warm smile in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years from now! If only the beaty of image matters, the Alphes's image may always occupy that place in some years, owing to a personal preference of picture.
And what I've thought since quite before, this may be another problem, but quite many images infringe copyright. If only the beauty of image matters, we can ask a better drawer to admit our using his/her images on this Wiki. In fact, the biggest wiki of Touhou does so.
What I want to say is that the favorable thumbnail should be from the newest game. --Masuo64 15:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Aww, I figured someone would say so ^_^' But oh well, this doesn't matter as much. I'm still using both Auer's and Alphes' drawings to make Touhou 2009 calendar, and pictures for Mokou Fujiwara (July), Letty Whiterock (February) and Utsuho Reiuji (August) still look nothing short of perfect for this purpose. Renivall Jeagerjacques 07:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Pronounciation

- Might be nice to have a pronunciation on some of the character names. I've never known if Cirno is "Sir-No" or "Ker-No," or if Keine is "Kee-N" or "Kai-N" or "Key-Nay." Could be useful to English doujinshi trying to make a pun, or just so I know what to mentally call them. It's unclear to me whether a strictly Japanese pronunciation of the names should be used or if it's sometimes suppose to be an English pronunciation, like with Alice. -Redpanda

Well, Cirno is easy enough: Ci-Ru-No to follow the Hiragana and this. Keine I'm not too sure on (personally I lean towards Ke-ee-ne), but I'll have it found out before long if somebody hasn't already answered it by then. Still, you have a point on whether ZUN meant some names to be English-style or Japanese-style pronunciation.

--Psieye

Well, it's Chi-ru-no, really. Chirno. Like Chernobog, but with more nines inside of circles. Moogy (talk) 06:52, 26 March 2007 (PDT)
{looks more closely at the Katakana} Ah, so it is. Blazes, I need to work off the rust off my Kanna sometime. --Psieye
My comments appear to have been accidentally deleted, so I'll post this again. Djinova actually started a thread about this on the old boards, and indeed those two were the most frequently mispronounced. Keine's name is pronounced something like Kay-Né, with a short "eh" sound at the end. Cirno is pronounced like Chill-No, because it was a pun by ZUN; the English spelling is rather misleading. -Pilpsie
Personally, I dislike pronounciation instrucions in English - after all, this is what IPA is for. However, I don't see how there could be any problems when deciding the correct pronounciation for Keine, as it is a perfectly good Japanese name with a kanzi writing and all... So, it's [ke:ne] (or [keene], as some seem to insist), although some speakers seem to go for [keine], which sounds a tad odd to me, although I'm not a native speaker either. In English terms... I dunno, it goes wrong anyway. Basically, the "e" in the end is voiced, and the beginning shouldn't sound like "kay". --130.232.131.47 14:36, 26 March 2007 (PDT)
Agree about the Ke:-Kay thing; "ei" and "ou" aren't usually diphthongs in Japanese. It's just that "Kay" is the closest English equivalent, and English is full of diphthongs. -Pilpsie
Let's do this the easy(?) way: can you spell out Keine in Hiragana? Kanna at least is easy to learn/lookup compared to Kanji.
Well, けいね,obviously. (Maybe I should register...) --130.232.106.17 05:35, 27 March 2007 (PDT)
Psieye, when you edit a page, don't edit the differences page, since it undos all the changes made after it; see this. Click on the link to the page itself and edit that. I accidentally did this myself when Tetrominon and I were editing the Hinafuda deck descriptions. -Pilpsie
Ah, noted - I'll remember to get to the article first before hitting Edit. And yes, I prefer breaking up pronunications syllable by syllable when having to convey Japanese/Korean -> English. Hence, "Ke-ee-ne" got it. --Psieye

Hmm, maybe the above overly-indented conversation can be summarised?

Cirno = CHEE-roo-no, Keine = KAY-neh

Character images

I'm in the middle of adding and replacing some character images for TH03 and I'm not sure about the dimensions. Most character images in this wiki are 126x254 pixels but variations exists, specially for the PC-98 series since most portraits don't do as well in that format. Should I force them to be 126x254 (as has been done here) or is it better to keep them as they are (like this)?
- Svinto 11:19, 29 April 2007 (GMT+1)

Nevermind, I found a way. It turned out really nice. :)
- Svinto 13:22, 29 April 2007 (GMT+1)

Occupation, etc.

The majority of characters, or at least a huge number of them, are listed as "occupation: unknown." Since so many character don't seem to have an actual job (like Flandre for example, who's only job is to sit there and be loli- I mean stay out of trouble) should at least the character who are known as being occupationless have theirs changed to read "occupation: none" ? Just seems like there's a lot of unknowns written all over so many character pages for that and other categories.

Also, since there are character pages for even nameless, profileless midbosses with no spell cards of their own *coughkoakumacough* and certain dolls named after places which aren't even proper characters in some senses, it might be interesting to see one large character page dedicated to all the scores upon scores of nameless fairies which have fallen before our heroines. They have different themes based on stages, often related to whoever the stage boss is, and just as much personal information as any of the other nameless characters. Plus some of them, like the fairies working at SDM, actually do have a lot of fun fact-worthy information both official and fan orginiated.

They're not characters, though, so they wouldn't exactly fit in the character section. A character by definition needs an identity, and they have none - at least Shanghai, Hourai, Lily, etc. all have names. Daiyousei and Koakuma are exceptions to this rule, as they have unique sprites which therefore make them unique in the eyes of the fanbase, who subsequently found ways to name them (thus "big fairy" and "little devil".)-Edible
A character like YuugenMagan also doesn't have much that the random fairies don't except a name and being one of a kind. Other than that its character is pretty much a blank slate. Koakuma at least has official comments about her personality from ZUN. But, since the hordes of fairies aren't actually proper characters on their own, maybe their rather sparse bestiary page needs to be expanded on instead since it only mentions fairies in folklore rather than in gameplay.

"Attacking humans is Youkai's job." - Rumia
I kind of want to make the "occupation = Unknown" of certain youkai profiles to read something like "occupation = Attacking humans" but I'm not sure a good way to word it. I'd like to get every profile as complete as possible before yet more new characters get introduced, and this is just one step of that.

"Occupation = Youkai"? -7HS

Alternate spellings, etc

In light of the brief discussion on Talk:Hong Meirin, I'd like to add an Alternate Spellings section to the Character Info template, under the Name field. This is already done on the Wikipedia list and could be used to mention Hepburnisms (like Fujiwara no Mokou and Shikieiki Yamaxanadu), popular fan spellings (Frandoll), variations among games (like Tei Inaba), and the Perfect Memento weirdness (Medicin Merancory?)

I propose that the character pages be named according to ZUN's romanization (if any) on their first appearance in a game. Still leaves Meirin up in the air, but at least it's consistent. Resulting page name changes would be "Aya Syameimaru" and "Huziwara no Mokou", I believe, as well as "Reisen U Inaba" if we want to be pedantic.

I'm also going to add a 'Book Synthesis' section to the character pages summarizing the content of the official print media as pertains to them, but that one seems easy to roll back if people don't care for it, so I'll go ahead and start on it. -7HS 11:03, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Fun Facts Overload

It may be pertinent to remove the fan-spawned memes and such from the bloated Fun Facts sections of the character pages. Perhaps they could be placed elsewhere?

Some could be removed, but a lot of them are much more wordy than they need to be. The same goes for profile summaries. Take Kaguya's summary for example; It's like a blow by blow epic of her life story without skipping any details, and is three times longer than Marisa's even though Kaguya has only been in 1 game and Marisa is in about 11 (counting 9.8 and 10). Later on I might try to make some of the longer summaries and fun facts a bit more concise. -Redpanda

What About Character Theme Music?

Very few characters in Touhou do not possess their own theme music but the rest do, and it pretty much goes with their character. I say that bit of info should be added to them as well.

As for those without theme music, like koakuma and lily white on the other hand I can't say if the stage music would be classified as theirs...

Like I said in User_talk:Noka maybe I could add an optional parameter to the character info template and if you want you can add theme song(s) for each character. --ClownOfThorns 17:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

About Ages in Profiles

Would it be better if it was changed into something like "Age at Debut"? I think it offers better presentation. Zer0Axiom 23:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

What about comic apparences?

(First, I dont write in english very well) Someone can add the comic and ZUN texts apparences, because only the characters that are unique to comic of which are named. For example I can can add the apparences of Inaba of the Moon Inaba of the Earth where Reisen Tewi plays are protagonist and participant Kaguya, Eirin, Mokou and Keine, (because they all have profile) but also appear Reisen II Yorihime, Toyihime, Rinnosuke, Aya, Reimu, Meirin, Sakuya, Remilia, Akyu, Suwako, Komachi, Wriggle, Alice and Patchouli. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.104.91.31(talkcontribs) 13:38, 10 July 2009

Moved from Talk:Lily_White:

On the current version, SaBND is listed on "Appearance". This record is needed to know "she is introduced to have ability to bring spring", but don't you think we must work to add in the articles of all characters, who also appear in SaBND? And I understand on the comic Lily was said to have ability to bring spring, but this wasn't narrator's announcement in square spaces. And finally they realized the fact was that spring didn't come where she came, but on contrary she came where spring did it, didn't they? But this is another issue and I'm not sure it's true, so I must read the comic when coming home... Sorry if this is my fault memory.(Discussion about Lily's powers moved bact to Talk:Lily White) --Masuo64 04:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I think we should include all appearances in works considered canon in the Appearances: section of each character. --Umhyuk 05:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Umhyuk, the latter of my wring don't suit to this page, so I'm going to revert the edit undone by you on the talk page of Lily White.
And question. How do you deal with charaters' appearing for Akieda's fun service like this? It seems that there's more characters of cameo appearance than main characters. Are you supposing these cameo have to be excluded? Or included? If the latter, I can't help opposing to you. If the former, the decision might, well, be appreciate, I suppose.
I'll make on Lily's talk page question about Lily's ability --Masuo64 10:29, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
In that image appear a lot of characters, but I think that`s important reffer to the important characters in each comic o text, who appear with a chart with is name, for example.
That image isn`t very important but I have some doubts.
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7812/oaos.jpg look this

Standardized Hepburn romanization

Following the discussion in Talk:Undefined Fantastic Object: Characters, I've moved these articles to change their titles to Hepburn romanization:

-- SuddenFrost 06:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I'm almost for your suggesting point, SuddenForest. But I have other opinions about a few points.
1. Yamaxanadu is a name indicating her office, so if we think rationally, is it better to prepose like "the U.S. President Barack Obama" or "Captain James Cook"? And in Japan, "四季映姫" is thought as indicating a kind of family name in "四季" and personal name in "映姫". Then it might be better to be transcripted as "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki", while it might cause people's confusion.
2. It's not essential point, but maybe it's the typing method or a combination of Hepburn style & 99 style that we've adopted in writing Japonesque name, not Hepburn style. For example, the Miko of protagonist is written in Hepburn style as "Chirêden", while as "Tireiden" in 99 style. "Yômu Kompaku" in Hepburn, "Youmu Konpaku" in 99.
Ah, anyway, 99 style is so minor that even some students of linguistics in Japan doesn't know it, but everybody knows how to spell it in it for learning Japanese typing method, because 99 style is made by the people who want to turn the Japanese romanization style from transcription into transliteration, and because Japanese word processor has been in need to type Hiragana in each word: 99 style and typing method is coincident accidentally.
3. it's neither essential, but it seems not-ballanced that the order of name like "Fujiwara no Mokou" and that of "Reimu Hakurei" exist at the same time. I think it's not very strange to spell an East-Asian, hm, and Hungarian, name in original order (Family/Personal) in English, in this era of the globalization or the Internet. But this causes also big confusion for all users. Ahh, 2. and 3. are not essential, so overlook it if you want to. --Masuo64 09:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Mokou and Akyu's names are an unfortunate inconsistency, but the "no" particle serves as an indication that they come from aristocratic families who date back further in Japanese history than most other characters. The only real solution would be to call them "Mokou of Fujiwara" and "Akyu of Hieda", but I don't really want to go that far. Mokou Fujiwara already redirects to Fujiwara no Mokou, and I just created the redirect from Akyu Hieda to Hieda no Akyu. I think we'll just have to be satisfied with that. -- SuddenFrost 00:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Although this discussion is dated one week ago, I think the 四季映姫 issue could be compared with middle names and titles being rendered in English. For example, consider the Marquis de Lafayette of both nobleman and numerous (oh so numerous) middle names fame.
First regarding her office, the wikipedia standard used above for the article title reads: "Gilbert du Motier, marquis de Lafayette", so a position or title could be sensibly and not at all objectionably rendered as "Shikieki, Yamaxandu" cf. "Barack Obama, the President of the United States" or "Barack Obama, President of the United States".
Regarding the order of names, consider http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Phantasmagoria_of_Flower_View:_Komachi%27s_Scenario#Komachi_wins_6 where Komachi calls her 四季様 in addition to the Marquis de Lafayette, whose first name is "Marie-Joseph" followed by (middle names) then by (family name) "Gilbert of (du) Motier". Here, the page title is his last name + title, his first name is never how he is addressed, and a popularly known title or name is how he is always referred to in English. Now considering that character profiles have romanization backwards from their Japanese order directly above, where 小野塚 小町 = Komachi Onozuka, then 四季映姫・ヤマザナドゥ might consistently be rendered as "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu" but with the inclusion of a note that fan works now commonly use "Shikieki Yamaxandu", as Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de La Fayette might be referred to as "the Marquis de Lafayette" in common usage and only as "Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de La Fayette" in scholarly or informative databases, as this Touhou Wiki is.
A screenshot from PoFV could provide a definitive perspective on which other romanizations can be included.
And transliteration is certainly far superior to romanization. The Gensoukyou article here without the "u"'s has been bothering me. Not only because typing "gensokyo" or "genso" or "kyo" in IME (even one programmed with touhou kanji) would not get 幻想郷, neither does "gensokyo" make any sense when compared to the kana syllabary to which it should match up. I could only understand it's continued usage here, in this central informational database for Touhou, only if Zun or official works use "Gensokyo". And certainly sooner rather than later, it needs to include "Gensoukyou", whether as the official title or as a note, the kana corresponding name should be absolutely be there. TheTrueBlue 07:21, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
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